How To Grow Your Small Business Fast Using Newsletter Marketing

In this episode, Shaun Buck, CEO of The Newsletter Pro shares his rags-to-riches story and his secret marketing formula in turning his business into a multi-million dollar empire using newsletter marketing.

Shaun Buck, CEO of the Newsletter Pro

As a young kid, Shaun always dreamed of becoming a business owner—that dream became a reality when he was 16 years old and he opened his first business: a pager company. Of course, pagers were on their way out… and soon his business was too. But it taught him an important lesson: perseverance. He’s since owned a handful of successful businesses, including his dream business (and the one you’re most interested in): The Newsletter Pro. Shaun wanted to help other business owners, like himself, market and expand their companies, and The Newsletter Pro allows him to do just that. The company took off like a rocket (they grew over 4000% in the first two years alone) and it hasn’t stopped growing ever since.

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Show Transcript:

Jesse Stoddard:             00:05                I’ve got Shaun Buck from The Newsletter Pro on today. I’m really excited to have you Shaun. Thank you for taking time, man.

Shaun Buck:                  00:09                I’m excited to be here.

Jesse Stoddard:             00:12                Excellent. So, I want you to fill in the gaps of the introduction that I shared by if you could share your kind of Hero’s journey, if you will. Just tell how you’ve gotten where you’re at. I’m sure you weren’t always successful. I’d love to hear about some of that. Maybe some of the challenges you faced along the way.

Shaun Buck:                  00:37                I was probably like a lot of people. I grew up super poor, when I mean poor, I mean like dirt poor. I lived with my mom who at the age of five my parents got divorced. So I was living in a single-parent household and we had these ghetto landlords and one day when we were walking to the kitchen, I can’t remember who it was, someone was walking in the kitchen and they literally put their foot through the kitchen floor and the floor just like rot it out from under us there. The landlord solution to that was to put plywood down. They put a piece of plywood down and nailed it over the floor and that was just now our kitchen floor.

Shaun Buck:                  01:20                So if you’re walking in the kitchen in the middle night, you very well could stubbed your toe and it happened to me a multiple times. It was very painful because you’d hit this damn board in the middle of the floor. We were just super poor growing up. I ultimately moved in with my dad at 10 years old because I was crazy wild kid. I’m doing my dad’s at 10 and unfortunately had a stepmom who’s abusive. So I went through a couple of years of that before my dad left her. It was at that time than I realized I never ever wanted to be beholden and under someone’s thumb like that again. Not only that I do not want to be poor, because being poor sucked, I did not want someone to have that kind of control over me.

Shaun Buck:                  02:15                And so that was when I knew I was going to be an entrepreneur and I would actually grab a notepad. It’s like this one and spiral bound notebooks at 10 years old. And I would dream like, I’m going to save up. I’m gonna work hard and buy Mcdonalds or whatever. That was literally one of the dreams at one point where I was to buy Mcdonald’s. I would dream and I would figure out like, how can I make sure that I’m never in kind of this position again in my life. In high school I did a few little odd jobs, or a few little odd businesses. For example, I sold pagers and the subscription service to all my friends in high school. So I’m a little Pager Company.

Shaun Buck:                  03:01                That was fun. It wasn’t fun when I had to go collect from them though, when they wouldn’t pay me. That was not so much fun. I would go and hit them up and be like, “listen, if you don’t give me your three months, your $27 for your pager systems for the next three months, I’m going to have to shut you off, man. I’m going to turn your page or off. So look, you’ve got until Friday, I need you bring me the money to school or I’m turning your pager off”. I’d have to go hit kids up. So that was fun. And then, fast forward a little bit. Well I guess then I had another crazy life event, which I talk about often. Which is that at 16 years old, I got this phone call out of the blue from my ex-girlfriend and she has some really good news for her and that is that she is pregnant and I didn’t understand why she was calling me, so I was confused by this because we had broken up two months ago and I said, congratulations, I guess.

Shaun Buck:                  03:57                And she goes, “well, no, you don’t understand, the baby’s yours.”. I said, “no, you don’t understand. We broke up two months ago.” But yes, that’s how these things work. So anyhow, as a teenage dad, so I had a lot of bad things go against me, at an early age and but I said “listen, I’m not going to let myself be in these situations. I can out think and I cannot work this stuff. “That was kind of the start of my entrepreneurial journey at 21. I quit my job with 18 team making over 100,000 dollars a year in sales for them and I started my first real business. My first real business, which was, I bought a couple of hot dog stands in front of Lowe’s Home Improvement stores and we did about half a million bucks a year on hot dogs. So that’s a lot of hot dogs. That was the start. That was in 2001 and I have been full time, , CEO or entrepreneur or self-employed or however you want to phrase it since then. That’s a little bit of a backstory. So maybe that fills a couple of gaps in, right?

Jesse Stoddard:             05:13                Pagers to hotdogs. At least you didn’t sell drugs except for if you did sell drugs, you might still be in business.

Shaun Buck:                  05:21                I didn’t sell drugs, I’ve never actually even done drugs, no I didn’t go down that route. I liked girls, not drugs.

Jesse Stoddard:             05:29                Oh man, that is amazing. And how many businesses have you had? I’m sure there have been a few other ventures.

Shaun Buck:                  05:40                Yes. Since the first real business, I believe I’ve had nine. Nine different businesses and lots of different industries from information marketing to dry cleaning, to loss prevention to direct mail marketing. The Newsletter Pro, which is the company that I’ve had since 2011. So nine different companies and I’ve sold all but one of them. So one of them I ended up having to close. I kind of like ran it out, you know, like it was after the economy collapse and it was still going and I kept it going while I was building the next business. But then by the time, the next business was up and running, there really wasn’t a whole lot left to sell.

Jesse Stoddard:             06:24                Awesome. That’s quite a story. Who are your mentors? Did you happen to grab some mentors along the way?

Shaun Buck:                  06:29                Yeah, actually, interestingly enough, at 16 years old after I found out I was going to be a dad, I popped into a bookstore because I needed to like figure out what I was going to do with my life. I got a mouth to feed and stuff. So I bought a bunch of well, I take that back. I didn’t buy any books or I bought one book, I didn’t buy like a bunch. I got a bunch of books, like I’d get a big stack of books. I sat down and I read them in Barnes and Noble because I didn’t have any money. And so I read these books and anyhow, I did buy one of them, I can’t remember, it was that first trip or if it was a subsequent trip, but I did buy one of them and it was by a guy named Dan Kennedy. And that was my first real business book. Kind of interestingly enough about 20 years after buying that first book from Dan, Dan asked me to co-author a book with him and I co-authored a book with him, in his No BS Series and that was published recently. That was pretty cool. Kind of like full circle moment for me.

Jesse Stoddard:             07:40                What was the one thing that made the difference, when you’re going through all those struggles and then eventually you pulled yourself out if you had to pinpoint one thing, what would it be?

Shaun Buck:                  07:54                I was really, really clear on my WHY, why I was doing it. And so for a long time, I thought my why was money, I thought I was like to have a lot of money and to be rich and not kind of stuff. What I found out at one point was that when you’re making, and it’s a little different for everyone. $75,000,$100,000, $120,000, $150,000 a year, money for most people’s not super motivating anymore. I’ve got a nice life, I take a nice vacation, my mortgage and bills are paid for like, this is pretty cool. What I think drove me though was in this constant desire to make sure that I never went back. It was actually for me, it was the fear of having to go get another job or being poor again or whatever the case may be. And so that was -I wasn’t always clear on, what I was clear that I was going to do this to make sure that my kids didn’t experience what I experienced, and I was very clear on my Why? I got up every morning and busted my butt. Then you seem to do much better than when it was all about how can I make the most amount of money.

Jesse Stoddard:             09:17                Awesome. So now you’re with The Newsletter Pro. That’s the main focus. And obviously, family and you’re pretty busy. You got a family and other things going on too.

Shaun Buck:                  09:26                Yup. Got Five Kiddos. All boys. So I told my dad, I’ve done my job to keep the family name going.

Jesse Stoddard:             09:33                Did a good job.

Shaun Buck:                  09:35                It was like, five boys Dad, I did everything I could. So got married and then five kiddos and that keeps me busy. We’ve got over 60 employees here. And that keeps me very busy as well too. it’s almost like having 65 kiddos some days. I mean most of them are great, but everyone who has employees know, some days it feels like it feels different.

Jesse Stoddard:             10:06                I don’t want to get esoteric but just sort of back up a little bit and let’s just talk about marketing a little bit on the theory side. So what is marketing to you? Like if you had to make a definition? There’s a lot of people that are confused about it. So what is it to you?

Shaun Buck:                  10:28                So marketing to me is the act of providing value to generate interest, which ultimately generates a lead. So that’s what I’m looking for. So I like – the way I look at it is I want to provide an immense amount of value. I want to give it away, in many cases give it away completely for free. I want to help people, I want to take that and use that to generate, that the value I’m providing to generate interest, in whatever my product or services, and then get those people to raise their hand and say, “Hey, I actually do want to know more about that.” And so to me that’s what marketing is or its purpose and how we practice it.

Jesse Stoddard:             11:09                Good definition. And what’s the difference between marketing and sales?

Shaun Buck:                  11:16                Sales to us is the act of, or basically going on a kind of a discovery process, right? We want to take you down a path to, almost interview each other. Have a conversation, get to know each other a little bit. And then from that conversation to determine if we’re a good fit to work together, can I help you? Can you help me, how’s that gonna work, are we a good fit? So I don’t see sales as the idea of getting everyone’s money at all costs. There have been times where it’s like, let’s hard close people and let’s push and give these crazy promotions so that everyone buys right now. And I find that the harder route to work to close the sale with deals and gimmicks and stuff like that, the worst of the worst client I end up with.

Shaun Buck:                  12:05                So for me it’s more about discovery. Of course, there is a natural point where you need to ask for the sale always. But I would rather go through a little bit of a discovery process, make sure that there’s a great fit. And then once there’s a great fit, it kind of naturally makes sense for me to say, well, let’s take the next steps.

Jesse Stoddard:             12:26                So in brief, what do you think it takes to put together a really good marketing strategy for business? It takes a lot, it needs to start with your vision, which I’m guessing most people don’t have a very clear vision. To know where you’re trying to go. I think that you need to have a mission or goals, clearly defined goals.

Shaun Buck:                  12:57                So you have to have a couple of those foundational pieces. And then from there it’s about working backward, so if I need to generate $100,000 in new monthly recurring revenue then simply put I need to start with – so my goal is$100,000. What’s the purpose of all this? You know, what’s the goal of $100,000 in MRR – average customer spends a thousand bucks a month, which means I need a hundred new customers. I’ve got churn in there that I got to factor in because we’re going to lose some customers along the way. And so if I want hundred thousand worth of new, net monthly recurring revenue, I need to calculate the churn. OK, so now I really need a hundred and 50 new customers.

Shaun Buck:                  13:47                And so from those hundred and 50 new customers, how many leads do I have to generate, and that it’s a breakdown of what media is going to generate me the appropriate leads. And, then the realization that not all leads are created equal. So in some industries a lead from Facebook is amazing and in some lead from Facebook is garbage, but a lead from direct mail or Youtube or Linkedin is great in another’s those don’t work, right? So whatever that happens to be for your business and you need to break it down into the – so I think I get 25 leads from doing this and 50 leads from doing that and a hundred and 75 leads from doing this. And here’s my conversion rate. Now, the one step further that I always take it is I don’t assume everything’s going to work out.

Shaun Buck:                  14:34                In fact, I typically assume a bunch of it’s not going to work because that’s marketing. You’re going to throw some spaghetti against the wall and then it all going to stick and that sucks. But that’s what you have to do. And so that I need to figure out. These eight activities get me my 150 customers, but that’s only if everything works. What are the five backup activities I’m going to do, to basically make up when one of these things doesn’t work? So I don’t know if that was the answer you were looking for.

Jesse Stoddard:             15:07                Let’s take it one step further now. So you’ve talked about strategy, kind of the overarching one, and now let’s get a little bit more specific, like from strategy to tactics. So if somebody comes to you and says, OK Shaun, I want to put together the ultimate marketing plan, like the specifics, I’ve got a budget, I want The Newsletter Pro and everything else you got, but also I just want you to tell me how to make this thing happen. Well, how would you create the ultimate marketing plan? I know it’s a huge question, but whatever comes to the top of your head is good.

Shaun Buck:                  15:38                So here’s what I would do. I would use a combination of online marketing. So I’ll just tell you some of our marketing plans. How about that? That might be a little bit easier. OK, so we do online lead generation, everything we do online, we drive to offers. The goal of the offer is to get name and address because, for us, the physical mailing address is important. So we, we drive all online traffic, whether it’s Facebook or Linkedin or it’s SEO, or it’s Adwords, whatever it is, we’re going to drive them to a landing page to get online traffic to opt-in for us. Now when they opt in for one of our free lead magnets, we’re going to drop them into a funnel. Now that funnel is going to be – the goal of that funnel – it has one goal, it is not to sell you anything.

Shaun Buck:                  16:32                The goal of that funnel is for you to schedule an appointment with one of our pros? So everyone confuses – you got to take one step at a time. So the lead generation, the first goal is to get you to opt in, then from the opt-in, and the goal is to get full contact information. Then from full contact information, the goal is to get you to schedule, to educate you so that you’re willing to schedule a call with us. From the call, that goal is to get you to make a decision that you’re going to buy or not buy or you’re not ready right now, and then if you’re a no or not right now, we need to drip on you with some more education and some more information and some more calls to action to get you to a yes point.

Shaun Buck:                  17:18                So that’s our online strategy. I’ll go through the offline strategy in a second. So the online strategy is to get you online and then as fast as we can take you offline. Do you see what I’m saying? Which is we’re going to also be sent, we are going to be dripping on you with print newsletters, with direct mail, we’re going to send you emails, we’re going to send you enough of a multimedia fashion. We might send you an MP3 and a CD, so it’s a multimedia fashion. Now the goal for our offline marketing is to actually take you online as fast as possible. So it’s opposite. So you’re offline. I meet you. I go and speak at a show, so someone flies me out, I speak at a show, I do a whole presentation and then from there, the goal is to gather those leads.

Shaun Buck:                  18:01                The simplest way to do it, if you’re doing it from stage, for example, is just text opt-in, where we gather your information and we’re taking you offline to online because I’m gathering your email, and your address and all this other stuff there, and then I run you through the exact same process. So as fast as I can get the leads offline, online, that’s the goal to get them online and those I get them online. I want to get offline and so it’s an O to O strategy, online to offline, offline to online strategy.

Jesse Stoddard:             18:31                You just gave somebody like a million dollar advice their buddy. You just told the entire world your entire strategy for your business.

Shaun Buck:                  18:42                That’s OK. Listen, if they want to do, they can be one of the dozen or so dead bodies who have.

Jesse Stoddard:             18:51                Who try to copy you? Yeah, but those the ones I know of. So let’s say they have to try to deal with all the employees, right?

Shaun Buck:                  18:55                I’d rather deal with employees and we might have a little bit of a headstart on the marketing,

Jesse Stoddard:             19:00                That’s awesome. Thank you. No seriously though. That was really good. What are your best, or maybe just your favorite examples of great marketing strategies that you’ve used? Just a couple of examples may be of a specific.

Shaun Buck:                  19:13                So the book, a literal physical book is one of the best strategies out there. If you can write a book, on your topic. So we have The Ultimate Guide to Newsletter Marketing is one of the two books that I’ve written.

Jesse Stoddard:             19:33                I have that one on my bookshelf by the way. Thank you.

Shaun Buck:                  19:35                Yes, you’re welcome. So that book has been responsible for many millions of dollars in revenue for this company. And it’s an authority piece. It’s a WOW piece because when you get the book, I wish I had one sitting right here. I probably have one on my bookshelf over here, but it’s an authority piece. It’s a revenue-generating, it doesn’t generate revenue, but it generates revenue in the sense that it educates, which then turns goes to sales. We send it out into what we call Shock and Awe package, which is this big bright orange envelope that we send it in and it doesn’t come with just a book. It comes with a ton of other really cool educational materials. And so we send all of that out, in the Shock and Awe package when people request it. Typically at no charge or just cover shipping and handling type of a thing.

Shaun Buck:                  20:23                It just depends on where we’re getting them from, where the leads coming in from. So we’ll send that product out to them. That has been amazing. I’ve updated it a couple of times over the years and I’ve updated the package multiple times over the years, but it’s been really good. I’ll give you two more. If you’re not using online funnels. So basically drip campaigns when someone, when someone comes into your funnel. And they come into it as a lead and you have automated emails that go out that try to move them from whatever that next step is. Remember I said we get the lead, then we got to get their full contact information. That’s step two. And step three is to get them to schedule a call. So all we do is focused on scheduling the call during that funnel.

Shaun Buck:                  21:13                So they’re going to go in and once they scheduled the call, they stopped that particular funnel and they jump into a different funnel. They might schedule the “Show Up for the Call” funnel, make sure that you actually get there. The funnels are amazing obviously if you’re not familiar with that, you should be. Then the last thing is, and this is something that we do. It’s the offline print newsletter, but we’re one unique way to use it. The primary way people use those for referrals or for to decrease churn to go to existing customers, but one way that we absolutely crush it personally and for our clients is by sending it to our hot prospects for a period of time. So we sent to those hot prospects and many of those people, they’re just not ready to buy right now.

Shaun Buck:                  22:00                And they will get the newsletter and, I kid you not every single, every single week we have someone who basically called up and makes a purchase from us and says, “I’m ready to go now” because they got the newsletter, they read an article, they called in based off something that we said on the newsletter and they decided, “OK, I think now’s the time”. Every week at least once that happens, most months, many times in a week. That’s just been amazing for us for a long time. It was some of our only marketing actually, helped even grow this company.

Jesse Stoddard:             22:44                What key technologies or tools would you recommend? We like a lot of different tools. We like, PlusThis which is a plugin for people who have Infusionsoft and I think they work with active campaign and drip and allows us to do that. Text opt-in, I mentioned earlier, speaking of Infusionsoft, we love Infusionsoft, they’re great and work really well for us. Let’s see, what else do we use? We use Teamwork on a regular basis and that’s what we use. We actually are developing our own custom software right now, but that’s what we’ve been using its Teamwork to manage all of our campaigns. I’ll go away in about 60 days, but I will still use it on the marketing side to manage all of our marketing campaigns. So Teamwork’s been great. Those are a couple that I really enjoy. If you’re not using Audible, I don’t know if that’s more of an app and a service and this software, but I’m able to cruise through books on Audible, which is an amazing way to learn a whole bunch of new things.

Jesse Stoddard:             23:50                Love some audio books like University on Wheels. Driving around. And speaking of books, what marketing or business related books would you recommend?

Shaun Buck:                  24:01                Let me tell you what some of our more recent ones are. I’ll take a look on my phone here. What I’m reading right now, I’m just about done with it. It’s an amazing book. It’s Building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller is one of my new favorite books.

Shaun Buck:                  24:22                The Tipping Point is always a great book. Malcolm Gladwell, How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference. One of the key takeaways on that one is the idea that I think people forget that even some of the little small minor things in your business really affects referrals and churn and whether people buy upsells, whether they come back a second time after they’ve been in the first time. And sometimes fixing those little-broken windows can have a huge impact on profits even though it doesn’t necessarily feel that way initially. But that’s always the classic that I love. Let me skip down here a little bit. Probably my favorite one on culture is, Uncontainable, which is by the gentleman who founded The Container Store. I think his name’s Kip. Try to find it in here really quick. Kip Tindell, it’s Uncontainable and it’s just a great one on if you’re interested in building a great company culture. Those are three really good ones. I mean I go through around nine books a quarter, so there’s always new books basically whether they’re

Shaun Buck:                  25:47                Audible or physical books. Good to go through a ton of books which was fun to learn.

Jesse Stoddard:             25:56                I was talking to Nick Loise from the President of GKIC and he’s a voracious reader and had a huge list. I think you’re up there too. I mean that’s a lot per quarter. I mean, you’re falling through some books.

Shaun Buck:                  26:07                It happened because a buddy of mine, Clate Mask who’s the CEO of Infusionsoft, I misunderstood him. At one point I thought he said while we were out to dinner or something, I thought he said he read nine books a quarter and I was like, well, “Clate can read nine books per quarter I can totally read nine books per quarter”, and I misunderstood. He only read six books a quarter, but by the time I figured it out and been like 18 months later I’ve been doing it long enough. So I was like, well, I’m just gonna. Stick with my nine books.

Jesse Stoddard:             26:35                Let’s talk about you for a second and your company, what is your unique selling proposition? And tell me a little bit more about The Newsletter Pro and who’s a good referral for guys?

Shaun Buck:                  26:46                For us when we create custom newsletters, that sound like you wrote them, you never have to write a single word – that gets you more referrals and decreased churn.

Jesse Stoddard:             26:55                And just to be clear though, these are an actual real print newsletter. This is not like an email newsletter.

Shaun Buck:                  27:01                We send out over half a million print newsletters from our offices every month, physical print newsletters and we were on if we could take everyone and go back and show, I’ve got like eight massive Xerox printers. A huge building here is 25,000 square feet, which we only use about half of it or maybe you know, 60 percent of that right now. But we’re trying to – I’m working to grow into it. That was my goal when it’s full, I figured we should be making more money theoretically. We work with a million dollar plus companies – we do have a product for people who have companies that are less than a million dollars that’s more economically friendly. A million dollar plus companies that a lot of times there are doctors and lawyers and a lot of professional services, but anyone who has a repeat customer that they would like to either get more referrals out or they’d like to decrease churn. So how fewer people cancel, or they want to, close more of their leads. That’s usually who it’s designed for. And we have a very specific process we put everyone through to make those things happen. So we’ve got a plan that we walk everyone through to get them those results and that outcome.

Jesse Stoddard:             28:16                So in a good referral, again, just to really be clear, it’s not just necessarily any business that wants to what.

Shaun Buck:                  28:23                So typically people who want to generate more referrals and decrease churn. So they’re a customer attrition, they want to decrease that number. And close more prospects but are million dollar plus companies, so if you’re not running about a million dollar company, our core products are all million dollar plus companies, we do have a semi-custom piece for people who are under a million dollars that fits better into that budget range. But it would be businesses who are selling repeat whoever, repeat purchasers, right? People who are going to buy over and over again or who can give them referrals.

Jesse Stoddard:             29:02                Now, I worked with you guys in the home services business and currently I have a law firm and financial services companies I’m working with. Can you help them as well? Those professional services?

Shaun Buck:                  29:14                We work with tons of law firms. In fact, it used to be dental is our largest niche and just recently lawyers overtook them as our largest niche that we work with. And our fourth largest niche is financial services companies. So we worked with a lot of those guys. In fact, we’re just getting ready to launch here in the next 30 days roughly a really cool a new referral program. It’s a little bit top secret, but I can tell you that we’re gonna work to get the next hundred and 25 referrals that we get. Everyone’s going to win some instant prizes. But the big prize, we’re going to give away a Tesla. I don’t mean lease them a Tesla. I mean like I’m going to go down and write a check and buy them a Tesla. For one person’s going to get that and then we’ll have gifts along the way. Every referral you’ll get stuff right? But out of the next hundred and 25, someone will get a Tesla. So

Jesse Stoddard:             30:29                Awesome! People may be interested. So we definitely would need to talk. How can people find out more about you and company and what’s a good way to get a hold of you? And it sounds like that’s a special offer right there. If you have any other special offers that you would like to offer the listeners here.

Shaun Buck:                  30:51                I’ll give them a link to go get that book, my book I said about, The Ultimate Guide to Newsletter Marketing so they can see the Shock and Awe. So even if they’re just interested in marketing, they’ll really enjoy that, but I’ll give them the link that gets it to them for free so they don’t have to pay to ship and handling on it. And so yeah, what they want to do is they want to go to So book. And that will get them, they can put in their name and email address they’ll ask for shipping address because we do physically send those books out. They will ship over here. Now you do have to be a real business. Someone will actually Google you. It cost us about 18 bucks or something like that, to send every one of those books out. So we have to be able to find an actual person who owns a business, but we will ship them over to us.

Jesse Stoddard:             31:41                Is there anybody else you think that I should interview for the Marketing Strategy Show?

Shaun Buck:                  31:51                My buddy Walter Bergeron who really helps businesses if they’re looking to exit, like if they are looking to, even if they’re not looking at exit, one of the things I’ve always been a fan of is making sure that your business is ready to sell it at any time because a business that’s worth selling is a business that’s worth keeping. And so if you’ve got the systems and the processes in place that someone would want to come in and buy you and then you’ve got a business that you will very likely enjoy running because it’s not running you. And so Walter is a pro, not only helping you set those systems and processes but then also a pro if you’re thinking about exiting, he knows all the tips and tricks and stuff to basically crush it for you and get you the maximum dollar. I know he’s sold at least one company I know for over eight figures. So, I mean he’s definitely an expert. I know he’s helped a lot of people too.

Jesse Stoddard:             32:44                Awesome, hey Shaun any last words?

Shaun Buck:                  32:49                No. Thanks for having me. Super excited to be here and I appreciate being on the podcast.

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