Brand Positioning with Dennis Crowley of Brand Engineers

Brand Positioning by Dennis Crowley

  1. How did Brand Engineers start, what strategies did Dennis Crowley use to take his business off the ground? Was there a struggle at the beginning or was it a seamless transition?
  2. What is Dennis Crowley’s perspective on marketing?
  3. What is Brand Engineers’ concept of a perfect/ultimate marketing plan?
  4. What are great marketing books for those who want to learn about strategy, branding, positioning, and marketing?
  5. Who is a good referral for Brand Engineers and what is its USP?

Dennis Crowley, MBA

Dennis has been directing successful global positioning strategy projects and market research for mid-size companies to multinational organizations for over two decades.  As the founder of Brand Engineers, LLC, and with prior experience in brand management and advertising, Dennis oversees and directs the company’s strategists and researchers at each stage of an engagement –customer targeting, strategic development, competitive assessment, market research, etc. – helping to create some of the most recognizable brand positioning and strategy in the over-the-counter and prescription healthcare markets; consumer goods market; and produce markets among others.

As an award-winning practitioner and experienced speaker, Dennis has been invited to speak at companies, organizations, and universities around the world, and has been quoted in numerous newspapers and magazines. In his career, Dennis has worked with such companies as Johnson and Johnson, Novartis, Roche, Sanofi, Eli Lilly, Starbucks, Tata Brands, Avocados From Mexico, United States Highbush Blueberries, Unilever and many, many more. Brand Engineers works on a complete scope of brand initiatives, including global product launches, business growth initiation, target customer identification, strategic development, qualitative & quantitative market research, and brand and franchise positioning.

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Watch this video and learn more about brand positioning as it applies to marketing strategy and marketing plans.

Show Transcript:

Jesse Stoddard:             00:03                Okay I’ve got Dennis Crowley on the line from Brand Engineers. How are you doing, Dennis? I’m good. How are you doing? I am fantastic. Thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show today. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, now I would love it if you could kind of fill in the gaps of the introduction and your bio and sharing your kind of marketing hero journey is what I like to call it. And I know you weren’t always a successful marketer and I would love to hear a little bit of your backstory and what you got going on in your past and how you got to where you are. Yeah, sure. So it’s been a while obviously.

Dennis Crowley:            00:47                So I started out years ago getting out of college. I wound up working as a sales rep for a number of years prior to going into brand management, worked on a work on a couple of different brands on the, on the professional marketing side, before I moved over to, this was with a Warner-Lambert actually, I’m going back in the day when a Warner-Lambert owned a not only a pharmaceutical company and, over the counter healthcare products, but they owned Trident Gum and Schick razors and Listerine. And so I was with them for a number of years. And then, from there I went over to the advertising side, I worked in a number of different advertising agencies for just about under 10 years or so. Again, mostly on the healthcare side. I did some stints with consumer products, work on some pretty cool brands. Got the chance to work on Harley Davidson for a while, which was an incredibly cool experience.

Jesse Stoddard:             01:50                Did you ever get to ride one? I’m sorry? Did you ride one?

Dennis Crowley:            01:54                I do and I still do. Actually, I have a Harley. My dad was,

Dennis Crowley:            02:01                Just to skip off topic for a brief second, but my father was a motorcycle cop for about 15 years. He was a cop for almost 30, but for 15 years he rode. So I kind of got the bug from him and I’ve been riding for years so it still does. But anyway, so I spent about 10 years on the advertising side, then, I started brand engineers just about 18 years ago. And it was really built out of the premise of looking at how brand positioning was being done for most products and realizing that it was really falling short, strategically in, and so forth. And the goal for me was really trying to figure out how to help these brand managers and business owners take their marketing efforts and actually be really successful with them.

Dennis Crowley:            03:00                Because what I saw was that a kind of a generalized approach to marketing and targeting and so forth. And I thought that was a whole hell of a lot more that could be done. And so, that was really where the journey started. Eighteen years later, we’ve been doing this for, we’ve done this for well over 250 companies and brands. We’ve worked with small mid sized companies in the US as well as large multinational organizations. I’ve got clients all over the US and all over Europe, that we’ve worked with, in those 18 years.

Jesse Stoddard:             03:36                Hey, you got to tell me, was it, did you have a struggle there at one point getting that new business off the ground or was it a seamless transition or how did that go? In eighteen years you might have seen a few bumps in the road?

Dennis Crowley:            03:47                Right. There’s always bumps in the road, right? Yeah. Getting a business started, early on I was fortunate enough to have, had a lot of contacts already. So, when I started the business I kind of tried to line up some prior clients and figure out who could do this, who would be willing to do some work with me, had the opportunity to put the concept in front of a few people and get some feedback and stuff like that. So I had that opportunity, but along the way it was tough. And there are still tough times right there still, there’s still ups and downs and it’s never smooth sailing from start to finish. But you know, in the grand scheme of things, if you believe what you do and you keep on working hard at it, people will buy from you and people will use you to help them.

Dennis Crowley:            04:45                And, part of what I was talking about, and you and I have talked about this in the past, but one of the things that I think is crucial is having focus, right? And so you could talk to a million marketing strategists, in the world, right? So there are lots and lots of them, but, I daresay you probably won’t find a whole hell of a lot of them that focus on brand positioning. Right? And that’s what we do. That’s all we do. We do the strategic development part, we do market research around it. And that is. We don’t do, we’re not writing brand plans, we don’t do advertising, we don’t do creative development, we don’t do any of that stuff. We do this. That’s what we do specifically.

Jesse Stoddard:             05:28                And you feel like that was the one thing that made the difference for your clients, or was there one thing that you notice that they really needed or that was, that was difficult for them to embrace as brand managers and marketing managers?

Dennis Crowley:            05:44                Yeah. So, I did feel that that was what they needed. There was definitely a lack of focus there. I think the one thing about it was when we first got started in it, positioning was something everybody knew the kind of had to check the box for, right? And they did that, the kind of said, “OK, yeah, I got to figure out what I want my company to be, what do I want it to stand for in the market or do I want this brand to represent in the market competitively.” And so I think that they understood fundamentally what they, wanted to do, but I think that they had a really hard time actually figuring out how to do that in a really, truly competitive way and in a way that actually made a difference.

Dennis Crowley:            06:30                So what we saw going back years ago, and I still see it quite extensively now, that’s just how we wind up getting our clients. And that is that most businesses, most brands focus on kind of these broad generalized ideas of what positioning is. Where do I want to be in the market? Well, I want to compete in the, I want to do as we, you and I talked about before, I want to be an electrician, I want to do residential, electrical work or OK, well that’s fine and you might be great at it, but, you know, so does everybody else that can say that they’re a licensed electrician, right? Just like brand managers. So if I’ve got a laundry detergent and I’m going to put that into the market, it’s not enough to say, my laundry detergent, get your clothes clean.

Dennis Crowley:            07:17                Well, if you haven’t covered that then you’re not a laundry detergent. Right? So yet you’ll see that kind of characteristic about a brand a thousand times. What I thought that brand managers really lacked was the ability to drive down into what is it that you can be different about, why should I buy your brand and not somebody else’s brand? And this is kind of the fundamental underpinnings of marketing. If I haven’t decided who I’m talking to and I haven’t decided why I’m going to be different in this market then in essence, I’m just going out there and saying, buy me instead of them. We both do the same things, but, I’m a nicer guy. I don’t know, what’s the reason I’m buying your brand. And so that was really the focus and I think that to cover up on the other part of your question.

Dennis Crowley:            08:11                I think the other part was by being super focused on my end by being really a descript and discreet about exactly what we did, it allowed us to develop an expertise in it. That’s really, I would argue, you know, not many people have the breadth and depth of experience or knowledge on brand positioning that we do and people understand it fundamentally, but understanding it academically, understanding the research behind it, understanding how it integrates into strategic marketing overall and stuff like that. So I think that there’s that benefit and I think that’s what clients got to, right?. So those that recognize that this is so critical look and say, well, if it’s so critical, I need to somebody that understands it at that level.

Jesse Stoddard:             09:00                So who were your marketing mentors? Who did you learn from?

Dennis Crowley:            09:03                You know, I looked at that and I was thinking about that for a bit and I gotta be honest.

Dennis Crowley:            09:10                I don’t know that there’s any single individual or any two or three people that I said that is brilliant. I mean, there’s a lot of people that you take a lot of little pieces and parts from, right? So, there’s a recent trout where the guys that developed positioning and I think that they were brilliant and looking at it but over time it’s developed and changed. They looked at it more of, as a communications element. It’s now really much more seen as a strategic element. There are lots of people, I mean, I follow guys like Frank Kern from a different perspective or Dan Kennedy from a communications standpoint who’s got know different flavors, different things that all kind of add up to how you see a positioning and how you describe it, I would say I jotted down to two people in particular.

Dennis Crowley:            10:11                And the thing I think about positioning is that it’s definitely a marketing element, but the thing I think that really gets you into the right place when you’re doing positioning work is consumer psychology. What consumers do, how do consumers make decisions? Right? Marketing is fundamentally about getting consumers to do something different, right? So they do this, they buy that. I want them to do this and buy my stuff and how do I make them change their mind? And if I had a breakthrough product and it was just revolutionary that kind of handles itself, right? I come it out and make people aware of why all of a sudden their lives going to be so much better. And, arguably technologically, there’ll be a clear connection from one to the other, but that doesn’t exist really in most brands, you know, mostly we’re talking about incremental changes.

Dennis Crowley:            11:12                I started a new company, whatever it is, if I’m making, a men’s grooming products, shampoos, stuff like that, hair pomade or whatever, those kinds of things. We incrementally advanced those products. So how do you get someone to change their mindset? I’m going to give up what I’m not going to buy Poland Spring anymore. I’m now going to buy Smart Water. Well, you know, arguably is not a whole heck of a lot of difference there. Right? So, the critical thing is I got to understand how consumers think, how they behave and what are the triggers that are going to cause them to move from one to the other. And so I would say as much as they are marketers that influenced the way I think there are probably as many people on the consumer psychology side that also influenced how I think about marketing.

Jesse Stoddard:             12:06                And what is marketing to you. What would it be a good working definition of in a nutshell?

Dennis Crowley:            12:09                Yeah. You know, it’s funny. I’m going to look at this because I wrote it down specifically and I want it to get the words right because of the way I think about it.

Jesse Stoddard:             12:22                I love it. I love how you decided to actually think about it enough to write it down. That’s fantastic.

Dennis Crowley:            12:33                Yeah. It was the art and science of creating customers. Ooh, I liked that one.

Dennis Crowley:            12:40                Because what it comes down to, fundamentally that’s all we’re doing in marketing is trying to figure out how to create customers. And so you could argue that you know, marketing is the strategy side. Sales may be the implementation side, but you know, what, it all kind of tied together, right? Sales should be implementing what marketing’s doing and trying to facilitate those strategies. But all you’re thinking about creating customers,

Jesse Stoddard:             13:03                And you’re segueing into the next question is, what do you feel is the difference between marketing and sales?

Dennis Crowley:            13:08                Yeah, and I think that fundamentally that’s what it is, that marketing itself is strategies about thinking about what are the, how are we going to move people to become customers? And sales is more of an implementation tool, right? It’s an important, incredibly important one, but it’s one that goes out there and actually creates, brings to life with the marketing folks were thinking about how they were, how they were envisioning the strategies that would move the market.

Jesse Stoddard:             13:37                So let’s talk a little bit about strategy. So in brief, if you had to, how would you, what does it take to create a great marketing strategy for a business?

Speaker 2:                    13:48                So, you know, I will always answer these questions with an incredible bias toward brand positioning because my feeling is that it’s the focus and the discipline of being really careful about who your customers are, who your targets are, that you select for your customer base and how you’re going to show them that you are different within the marketplace. So I will always default to the fact that positioning for me is the fundamental component of marketing. I read a book once and I can’t remember the name off the top of my head. The gentleman that wrote it basically said it was, it was a comment about branding basically. And he said, you know, we talk about branding out as if it’s a verb. Like it’s something that we go out and do. And if you look at the real core definition of branding or what a brand is, it’s really not something that you do, but something that you get back, in the sense that if you’ve done everything else really well, your customers will decide that your brand, because the brand has an emotional connection to a customer and you can’t force that.

Dennis Crowley:            15:05                You can only facilitate it and hope that they’ll say, yes, I’m connected to you and your product. And so brands are given to you. Not something that we actively do. And fundamentally his point was marketing is positioning the thing that we do fundamentally all the time, every day, day in and day out as marketers. Again, whether we’re talking about a $10,000,000 business or we’re talking about a $5,000,000,000 brand, the thing that we’re doing every day is going out and positioning our company or positioning our brand in the marketplace. How come competitors should see us differently than they see other offers and how should customers see us compared to other competitors in the marketplace.

Jesse Stoddard:             15:51                All right, well in a nutshell, how would you put together the perfect or ultimate marketing plan?

Dennis Crowley:            15:59                Yeah, so I think that the traditional components of marketing plans are crucial, and positioning is crucial within that.

Dennis Crowley:            16:10                So, we’ve still got to look at what’s the market look like, what are the competitors look like? And looking at those, evaluating both of those things, trying to understand where our product or our company has competitive advantage. Even just fundamentally, what do we do functionally? How do we, how does our product functionally distinguish itself from competitors in the market? But then I think you got to get into, what is it that we want to ultimately have our brands look like? How do we want our company to be perceived within the marketplace? And again, this goes for, this goes for everything from solopreneurs, to multi-billion dollar organizations. The fundamentals are exactly the same. You have to be thinking about what is it that we want our customers to, how do we want our customers to see us, how do we want them to see our brand or our business?

Dennis Crowley:            17:11                And then the marketing plan should set out the steps that you need to to take in order to achieve that. I call them perceptual milestones actually because I look at it and say if, in five years from now, I want everybody to see us as the best men’s hair care product company in the northeast. Then I have to think about, well, where am I today and what do I need my target customers to believe at different phases along the way? I can’t go from, they don’t know who I am too we’re the best company in the world, in one fell swoop, right. I’ve got to go from they don’t know who I am and they’ve got to realize I’m making very high-quality products and then from very high-quality products I’m creating an image that they want to believe they have.

Dennis Crowley:            18:07                And then from there I want him to believe that I’m competing with national brands potentially. So there’s a stepwise approach of what do I have to do from today though, you know, something five years from now or so. And what are those steps? And I think a great brand plan or marketing plan lays out the strategies required to move your customers through those, that sequence of perceptions.

Jesse Stoddard:             18:35                And what are your best or favorite examples, specific examples of great marketing strategies that you’ve used.

Dennis Crowley:            18:48                Yes, so that I’ve used? I mean there’s different for different products obviously, or have helped others use. That’s okay, too. If it was, I want to answer those. I was trying to think about what were some great marketing strategy examples, that we even just get our clients to think about.

Jesse Stoddard:             19:06                And I had one that I’d like you to cover unless you have specific ones, we were talking about the other day and you mentioned you gave that idea to the uh contractor? Oh, a friend of mine that was the electrician. I even, if you have another idea, I would love for you to share that because it’s great. I just thought it was a perfect example of how small businesses kind of screw this up all the time.

Dennis Crowley:            19:31                No, that’s fine. I wasn’t thinking about that, but yes, you’re right. So yeah, let me, let me reiterate that story. So I was talking to a buddy of mine who’s an electrician and he’s got a couple of crews, nothing huge just a local guy. And he was talking about a competing, just generally competing in the market and wanting to understand how he can grow his business.

Dennis Crowley:            19:57                And he kind of asked me, pretty point blank, what the hell is positioning? I hear you talking about, I have no idea what you mean? I’m trying to give them an example that I was trying to make it very viable for him. I want to make it really relevant to what he does. And so I said, “If I go out and I look and I’m going to find I have some work done at my house and I go to find them, electrician and I start flipping through Google or through the yellow pages, everybody looks the same, everybody’s licensed, everybody’s certified, everybody does residential and commercial electrical work and blah, blah blah. But basically there’s no difference, right? It’s just alphabetical. A through Z, you guys were all pretty much the same. And so what winds up happening is probably if I was a business guy, if I was the electrician, the worst thing in the world that happens is that my potential new clients then default to call a friend of theirs on the phone and saying, hey, would you use?

Dennis Crowley:            20:54                Right? So no matter what I’ve done from a marketing standpoint or how I’ve tried to promote my business, it all goes into the or because, that those customers can’t figure me out. So they figure out a different way of getting at what they want to get at. And that’s called a friend and saying, did you use this person? How were they? And so I said to him, one of the things I would consider, if I was an electrician and I said, instead of focusing on just kind of the same old, same old, what if you looked at it and said, “I’m going to focus myself on only homes that are 50 years old or older in the New York Metro area.” And I said I own an old home. I said, so what if you took that example and you really kind of dug into being an old home electrical expert, like you understood how they were wired, what kind of construction techniques they were using.

Speaker 2:                    21:49                Specialized a little bit in how to rewire those houses, or what the fundamental challenges are, that old homes present, that new construction doesn’t present, and you could bring yourself in as really an old home expert. You understood, start to finish what those challenges were going to be. So, I own an old home, right? I want to change a light in my dining room, chandelier in the dining room, and I take down the thing and I’m pretty handy and I take it down. And I have the new one and I’ve got three wires and guess what, there are only two wires in the box up there. What do I do? And I’m looking at it going, well, I’m not going to screw around with it because I don’t want my house to catch on fire.

Dennis Crowley:            22:36                So you start looking around, who’s the person you’re going to call to come in and do this? Well, I’ll tell you what, if somebody showed up in my search as being the expert in electrical work in old homes, that would be the guy I’d call because they understand. They would have a clear understanding of what’s going on in my house right now. I would think that they are an expert in that area, and how many, 50 years old or older homes are there in the New York Metro Area. A million, two million, a lot of the right? So only separate yourself from the run of the mill guys who are doing the regular work. I said, you know, and you don’t lose out because if I look at it by all the newer home and I looked through the phone book in or whatever, Google search right now and I find a guy that specializes in electrical work in old homes.

Dennis Crowley:            23:24                I’m looking at that saying, oh, this guy must really know what he’s doing. If he could do old homes then he can do new homes because those old homes gotta be more of a challenge than the new homes are. And I might call them then too. So you don’t lose out on the new home stuff, all you do is really distinguish yourself and set yourself apart from all the hundred other electricians that are in the local search.

Jesse Stoddard:             23:48                And I think a lot of small businesses are afraid to niche or promote the fact that they have a niche. They might actually do it, but they’re afraid they’re going to turn away customers, right? They’re going to fray, they’re going to scare everybody else off because they’re just being razor sharp, focused on that one target market.

Dennis Crowley:            24:07                Yeah. And and that comes up a lot. That is a real concern that businesses have. And I’ll tell you what I find is that the exact opposite is true. The analogy that I use a lot is a lot of people look at positioning and being really focused and picking a target market in the same way they seem like a bullet going through a paper target. It has a maximum impact where you shoot at the target. And has a very little effect on anything else, right? So it makes a nice clean hole through the paper and that’s great. I did great in that one spot, but I didn’t do anything else to the target. And while that seems to make sense, what we’ve found in hundreds of these projects is that positioning as much more like dropping a rock into a pond, you still have maximum impact where the rock hits the water, but those ripple effects cause other people that are not part of your target market to still find interest in you.

Dennis Crowley:            25:10                Right? So an analogy or an idea, an example of that would be, let’s do something really common. So, you know, Volvo, right? Oh, let’s use let’s use the electrician as an example that we just talked about. So if I focus on old homes and that’s my expertise and I focus all my attention there, the concept of yes, I will get people that own old homes, but I will not get anybody that doesn’t own a home that’s 50 years older or is false because as I said before, I may be a new homeowner who looks at and says safety is a paramount issue for me when I have someone do electrical work in my house and if I know somebody can manage that in an old home which we know have electrical issues and old wiring was not the same codes as we have now, and that guy can do all of that.

Dennis Crowley:            26:04                Well, I may still have the same safety concern. A person that owns an old home has in a new home and for me that’s resonant. So I wasn’t the target, but the message was still important to me. Those are the ripples. Those are the people that you get outside of that and so you get those customers anyway even without necessarily talking to them directly, but it’s the idea of what you focused on that causes those people to recognize that this guy actually delivers something that I want. Even though he’s not talking to me specifically, I love that example. And so I think small businesses definitely have a hard time with that, right? I think that it’s a real fear and I totally get that. But I think unfortunately they’d probably caused themselves to do less business than more business because they’re not focused on the exact attempt to try to grow their business and it almost has the exact opposite impact. You see for yourself in businesses you’ve worked on, but you know, if someone approaches you with a very generalized offering and offering doesn’t necessarily grab your attention, doesn’t make them stand out.

Dennis Crowley:            27:18                And so then you fight tooth and nail for every project. And I’d argued that if you talk to electricians, and I’m talking to my buddy about this, is that what winds up happening is that you compete on time and cost. And so if you’re no different than the next guy, how do I win? How do I get you to pick me instead of him? I’ll do it for 100 bucks less. That’s the worst place to be. If I’m a specialist and I specialize in old homes, it’s going to cost you $500 more, but you can’t get my service from anybody else. Right? So you can get somebody else but they won’t have the same expertise. And if safety is your concern now is it worth 500 bucks? Yeah to get it done? And that’s what great positioning does. And you know that’s a great strategy, right?

Dennis Crowley:            28:03                So great marketing actually elevates your ability to sell the same thing at a higher price.

Jesse Stoddard:             28:10                I think you did a good job of just illustrating what a good strategy would be. So thank you. That’s fantastic. But did you have something else you wanted to mention in that or can we move on to the next thing? We can move on. I think that covers it. Yeah, it’s great. I would just want to ask about technology for a second. A lot of us here are online all the time. Everybody has technology recommendations and is there any particular tool or tools that you would recommend for people or business owners, entrepreneurs or other marketers?

Dennis Crowley:            28:39                I, you know, the things I think that is from an implementation standpoint, I think there are lots of great tools and that’s not me, that’s certainly not my area of expertise.

Dennis Crowley:            28:49                So you know, whether somebody uses Infusionsoft or Clickfunnels or whatever else, that’s not what I do. Fundamentally, so I couldn’t really tell you better than most people, whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing, but I would say that the things that I think are most important, especially we just talking about the general marketing strategy where the things like Facebook’s audience insights, Google audience insights, those kinds of things are the things that are most important because if you can get a handle on, and this goes back to the comment I made earlier, right? This is about consumer behavior, consumer psychology. If you can understand what your customers are, what makes them tick, how they are thinking, what kinds of things cause them to take action then those are the things that are most critical to you doing great marketing.

Dennis Crowley:            29:52                And so I think there are a lot of tools out there now that you can use to try to understand who’s buying what, what are people looking for, you know, those kinds of things. I would say those to me would be the most important elements from a technological standpoint.

Jesse Stoddard:             30:05                And what marketing books would you recommend for people that want to learn more about strategy, branding, positioning, marketing?

Dennis Crowley:            30:15                So one book that I read a long time ago, and again this is, I’m going to tell you two books that I think are not necessarily marketing books, but a great strategy, great thinking books and one is a Stumbling on Happiness by Dan Gilbert. And many of you probably have seen him. He does. Oh God, what does he do? He does commercials. Now you see them all the time. You ever see the guy that does the commercials on building your retirement plan?

Dennis Crowley:            30:46                You know, they paint the wall or they walk on them, that’s Dan Gilbert, the guy’s a consumer psychologist. And Stumbling on Happiness is about understanding the human psyche and understanding what makes people happy and why? Marketing is about making people happy. It’s about getting customers to satisfy some innate need beyond just the functional requirement and more into the emotional aspect. So Stumbling on Happiness was a great book and just kind of understanding how people think and kind of what sits in the subconscious about how they make choices. And then the other one is influenced by Robert Cialdini. And that is also why people make buying decisions. So these are their marketing books in the sense that it’s about why people do what they do, right? So they’re not just, you fundamentally do step one, two, three, but it’s really just understanding your customer base and if you can understand how customers think, then you can design marketing plans to take advantage of how they think.

Jesse Stoddard:             31:59                That’s fantastic. Good recommendations. So now what’s your USP and who is a good referral for you and your business?

Dennis Crowley:            32:10                Yeah. So, we do positioning work, right? And we do that, for as I hate to say it, larger, small businesses. So, while we’ve done lots of work with multinational organizations, we look at businesses and work directly with businesses that do anywhere from $10,000,000 a year up to companies, multi-national organizations that are doing billions of dollars a year. We’re in the process of trying to take a lot of our knowledge and a lot of our experience and build out some programs for smaller companies that don’t want us to come in and necessarily do the work for them and help a hands-on consulting but more thinking about how can we help people just understand fundamentally the things that will make a difference in their business.

Dennis Crowley:            33:06                So we’re working on that. We’re not quite there yet, but I think the stuff that we do and the stuff that we have, and the experience that we’ve got certainly lends itself toward those businesses.

Jesse Stoddard:             33:20                How can people find out more about you and do you have any potential special offers that you would like to throw out there, which is optional?

Dennis Crowley:            33:29                So we don’t, I mean in the sense that we don’t have anything that’s currently set up where we got some training that’s already in place. I mean, people could certainly reach out if someone’s interested and wants to chat a little bit. I mean, I’d be more than happy to, set up a couple of calls and spend 20 minutes or 30 minutes chatting with somebody if they have some interest and if they’ve got a particular problem they’re trying to figure out or want to just bounce some ideas off somebody they can, they can certainly do that.

Dennis Crowley:            33:56                You could kind of see what we do on our website, which is, it’s probably a bit high level. It’s probably geared more toward bigger companies at the moment we’re in the process of updating that for smaller businesses. But it’ll give you a sense of kind of how we think and some of the work that we’ve done. And, and if people want to reach me they can just email me at and I’ll get back to them and we can see if we can set up some time and spend a little time trying to help them work through some of their concerns or problems.

Jesse Stoddard:             34:31                Awesome. Thank you. And is there anybody else you can think of that we should interview for this Marketing Strategy Show? And I also would like to have you back for part two down the road at some point if you’re open to it.

Dennis Crowley:            34:45                I’d be happy to. That’d be fun. I mean, maybe if you get some questions emails from some of your listeners, we could even kind of take a few of those and just throw out some thinking about what might be helpful. That’s great. I’ll leave that up to you. Whatever you want, or if I get some emails from some of your listeners, we can, well, I’ll pull them together and we can just kind of talk through what we saw as maybe some fundamental issues that people seem to have kind of addressed them in a global sense. As far as other people know. I mean there are so many great people out there to interview. You know, you might want to consider some folks that do some of the, some research people to think about, the talk to consumers. It might be interesting to get some perspectives on one of the trends and how do they see consumer behavior changing in 2018.

Jesse Stoddard:             35:44                Awesome. Hey, thank you so much for being here today. This has been great. I know you’re so busy, you got a lot going on and you’re developing new products and programs and so thank you for spending time with me today.

Dennis Crowley:            35:54                Hey Jess. Thanks very much. I appreciate you having me on. And as always, it’s good to talk with you. All right. Take care.

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